Posts by Richard Oliver

39

...It Belongs to the Society

by Lostandfound in

way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

Richard Oliver

Outlaw. The OP states that he feels that in the example that was given that the CO should not have even brought up selling off that hall because the hall belongs to the congregation and not to the Watchtower. I certainly disagree with that contention but as the OP says it was a strong group of people who attended it and was in no danger of it going down on it's own accord.

So my question has been throughout this whole back and forth is that there are certainly times when a congregation needs to be dissolved and a kingdom hall is no longer needed. Outlaw you are of the contention that if Watchtower ever dissolves a congregation or sells a kingdom hall, that it is a money grab and all that they want is the money. So my question to you is, do you ever think that is not the case? Do you believe that there is ever a time for Watchtower to dissolve a congregation or to sell a kingdom hall for a legitimate reason? I am not saying that this is true, but I do believe it is hard for you to say yes you do believe that there are times for this because you keep on making the statement that the only reason Watchtower ever does it is because they are money hungry and want to be part of the real estate game.

27

More congregations? One of the strategies they used to inflate the numbers in my city.

by Tempest in a Teacup in

jw
friends

i looked at the 2017 yearbook figures this morning, and it reminded me of something which happened in my former congregation 2 years ago.

it was a tiny foreign language congregation with at most 25-30 publishers.

comes and splits a 30 member congregation into....three.

Richard Oliver

Dreamerdude. Also by the way, the visit of a circuit overseer to a group does not define if they are a congregation or not. If the group has a host congregation, they are only considered a group and would only be counted once with their host congregation. The CO guidelines gives the procedure of when a group should receive the visit of a circuit overseer separate from their host congregation.

39

...It Belongs to the Society

by Lostandfound in

way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

Richard Oliver

Outlaw. I don't understand. You are calling me an idiot, so obviously you think that you are much smarter than me, so answer my two questions. Do you think that there is ever a reason dissolve a congregation or to sell a kingdom hall?

39

...It Belongs to the Society

by Lostandfound in

way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

Richard Oliver

Lostandfound. I believe in facts not in sentiment. I believe that many people want to attack because it makes them feel better. I know that demographics in communities continually change either for the good or for the bad. I know that communities that are heavily dependent on one industry and that industry either drys up or moves, that community demographics will change. Also as the opposite, where if a community becomes more gentrified, more middle-class to poorer people will be pushed out, for more upper-middle class and rich people. We can see that not just in the US but throughout the world.

So my point is that people cannot say that Watchtower should never dissolve a congregation or say that they should never sell off property, because they automatically call it a money grab. If a city that hasn't built a kingdom hall since let's say 1995, has seen a reduction of population by 25% over that same period of time, I don't think a reasonable person would say that all of those kingdom halls and congregations would need to continue to be in operation. There would have to be a reduction just by pure statistics. Why should a congregation shoulder the expense of maintenance, utility and other costly expenses to keep a hall going for 40 people when that 40 people can be moved to other congregations and those costs can be deferred and can be shouldered by a congregation of 80 or 100 people.

I know people here want it both ways where Watchtower should be sentimental in the way that it should never change and if a congregation is stagnant or decreasing it should stay because that is what people have known but on the other hand demand that Watchtower changes their policy, and not only on child abuse, but on many things of what Watchtower is doing.

39

...It Belongs to the Society

by Lostandfound in

way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

Richard Oliver

Outlaw, where do i indicate that you asked a question. I am asking you the question. Do you feel that a kingdom hall should ever be sold? Do you feel that a congregation should ever be dissolved?

39

...It Belongs to the Society

by Lostandfound in

way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

Richard Oliver

Lostandfound stated this:

congregation cessation was an impossible concept, the only one use was if a new and better facility was needed locally either by this congregation or in partnership with an immwdiate neighbour. In his day and his fathers and indeed his fathers, local ecclesias stood alone and had to be defended at all costs by locals, with no help from Mill Hill, in retrospect MHs only help was directing the builders to a roof component supplier, an asbestos roof that was a nightmare to replace.Back then so few KHs existed that the concept of building one to merely sell to provide funds for WT was laughable. The congregation understood that the land and the building were owned by the Zzzz congregation of Jehovah's witnesses, and always would be in this system.

So the statement was that it should always be owned by that congregation. What if that congregation no longer needed to exist. The posters own statement says that, that no matter what a congregation would not have stopped owning that property.

27

More congregations? One of the strategies they used to inflate the numbers in my city.

by Tempest in a Teacup in

jw
friends

i looked at the 2017 yearbook figures this morning, and it reminded me of something which happened in my former congregation 2 years ago.

it was a tiny foreign language congregation with at most 25-30 publishers.

comes and splits a 30 member congregation into....three.

Richard Oliver

Dreamerdude, can you give the examples of the two foreign languages and the general area in which they are?

39

...It Belongs to the Society

by Lostandfound in

way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

Richard Oliver

Outlaw. I am trying to understand where you are coming from. Do you say that I am an idiot because I can see demographics of a community may change that would require a downsize of congregations in a community? Or do you just again feel that kingdom halls should never be sold?

39

...It Belongs to the Society

by Lostandfound in

way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

Richard Oliver

So Outlaw, you feel that a kingdom hall should never be sold ever. Even if the demographics of a community has changed so much due to economic or social events that negate having a kingdom hall there. Lets say in any number of US cities where economic pressures has decimated a city and has seen it's population dwindle dramatically. Some examples are Cleveland Ohio, where the cities population has decreased by half a million people, Buffalo, NY by 300k people. Obviously some of those people who left were JWs, and so a kingdom hall may not be needed because people are just moving out of the community. No Kingdom Hall should ever be sold?

9

Paedophiliac

by midnight in

i don't think jehovah likes paedophiliac behaviour .

has anyone got a reference to an article anywhere that shows watchtower giving council that paedophiliac thoughts , feelings , leanings are wrong ?

.

Richard Oliver

I was referencing Iown Mylife, where they automatically called them criminals. It is disgusting thoughts but they don't become criminals till they put in motion a plan to abuse a child sexually.